EGR on or off with new tuner?

[Blaster7Romeo]

OK so my truck is going in to the shop next week most likely to get new head gaskets with studs. But my question is what is Spartans feelings about EGRs being blocked off or not, for use with the new tuner? I am leaning towards getting them to block it off while they are working on it to save on problems latter but I thought I have herd some rumblings on some other forms about getting better mileage with then on?

[brad g]

you can just unplug the egr valve solinoid located on top of the engine next to the oil filter housing, you dont need any special programing. depending on the year of your truck it wont even put an engine light on ..

before you unplug the egr make sure you havent run the truck for at least 12 hrs, the engine has to be completely cold so the valve is closed.

[Blaster7Romeo]

Well I had herd talk about it negitively affecting fule economy is the reson for the question. And if you dont program it being blocked or unpuged in to the program the truck will go in to lymp mode..

[brad g]

Well I had herd talk about it negitively affecting fule economy is the reson for the question. And if you dont program it being blocked or unpuged in to the program the truck will go in to lymp mode..

were takling about a 6.0 l right? i had an 05 f350 6.0 l i unplugged the egr and got better fuel economy (21mpgs average) i never had any engine lights and no problems never heard about any lymp mode at all with a 6.0 .

[Blaster7Romeo]

yea I had mine unplugged for a while I lost 5# of boost on the top end.. but it did have more power on the bottom end it would idle with 1# of boost. I had been reading over on FTE about with the egr unplugged it would not work the vanes in the turbo. and on newer flashes it would get less fuel millage because of an EPA mode in the FICM on the newer flashes.


http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/705891-new-egr-info.html

this is the thread i was referring to. And Matt's comments in this thread wondering if they had figgerd out a way around the EPA mode with the new tuner?

[Variable556]

yea I had mine unplugged for a while I lost 5# of boost on the top end.. but it did have more power on the bottom end it would idle with 1# of boost. I had been reading over on FTE about with the egr unplugged it would not work the vanes in the turbo. and on newer flashes it would get less fuel millage because of an EPA mode in the FICM on the newer flashes.


http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/705891-new-egr-info.html

this is the thread i was referring to. And Matt's comments in this thread wondering if they had figgerd out a way around the EPA mode with the new tuner?Argghhh!!! I thought I had this figured out, and I was having my EGR deleted this week... Then I read this thread and the one in the link.:mad: ARGGHHH!!! Are there any updates on this topic? Should I now keep my EGR(UGHH!!!:eek:)? If the Phalanx tunes the FICM, then shouldn't they be able to get rid of this crappy EPA mode stuff?

I was getting ready to request my tunes for my new Phalanx, so if anyone can clear this EGR thing up I'd really appreciate it!!!:)

[navydiver]

Variable556...I have had my EGR valve unplugged for the last two years (2006 6.0). I get a code that I simply clear every time I start up. I get better mileage, great performance, and have had no negative issues. If my performance is hindered I am not aware of it. My boost pressure gauge (Banks PDA) reads into the 30's when I really get on the throttle, so I don't think I am lacking any boost pressure. Now, keep in mind...I have never had my ECM reflashed. I became skeptical when I heard of guys having problems with the new flashes and decided that "if it aint broke...don't fix it".

[Blaster7Romeo]

I am 95% sure i had the EPA mode with my truck (2004 that was re flashed) When i got the EGR blocked off I went from 30LB of boost in a WOT down to 25LB and at idle i would have 1LB of boost..

When I talked to Matt he said that the computer no longer knows the EGR even exists after i got my tunes (but i maid sure he knew my egr was blocked off so it may not be like that on all tunes be sure to bring it up) I did run my truck with that EPA mode for like 12 k miles so i think my turbo may be a little sticky. It still idles with 1lb boost. but I have seen 30LB of boost plenty and i have been driving the crap out of the truck with ASE and Hybrid race and have been getting 50 mi or so more out of a tank of fuel (but that is just 2 tanks and buy far not scientific but i know it is not worse lol).

I think if you make sure to tell Matt about your EGR delete you will be good to go

[navydiver]

I agree with Blaster7Romeo...sounds like Matt deals with that pesky EGR once and for all. Based on what you said, Blaster, I'll probably go with the EGR block or closed up-pipe vice just leaving the EGR unplugged...to make sure no exhaust "pushes" through.

[Variable556]

Whew! Ok, thanks a lot guys! I can go back to breathing now. When I first read that thread on FTE I about had a heart attack. I'll be glad to get past all this EGR drama and quit worrying about the dang thing. My blood pressure will go down about 20 points.:)

[NuttyProfessor]

...and on newer flashes it would get less fuel millage because of an EPA mode in the FICM on the newer flashes.

There is no such thing as an "EPA mode" in the FICM. The EGR system in the 6.0L can however be turned off by flipping a switch in the engine calibration.

Nutty

[Blaster7Romeo]

Well I was just repeating what i read over on FTE link i provided earlier.

So then What would is the explanation when i unplugged my EGR and I would get a loss of 5lb boost on the top end and when i truck would get warmed up it would idle with 1 lb boost and I would get turbo farting, then when i plugged my egr back in it would go back to normal, then when i got my EGR blocked off it came back?

[NuttyProfessor]

Well I was just repeating what i read over on FTE link i provided earlier.

So then What would is the explanation when i unplugged my EGR and I would get a loss of 5lb boost on the top end and when i truck would get warmed up it would idle with 1 lb boost and I would get turbo farting, then when i plugged my egr back in it would go back to normal, then when i got my EGR blocked off it came back?

You can't always believe what you read on the Internet. There are many "a friend of a friend said that he overheard someone say this..." and now that person is an expert on the subject.

The diagnostics in the ENGINE file are causing this when they see that the EGR valve is tampered with.

[krdiesel]

You can't always believe what you read on the Internet. There are many "a friend of a friend said that he overheard someone say this..." and now that person is an expert on the subject.

The diagnostics in the ENGINE file are causing this when they see that the EGR valve is tampered with.

The "epa" mode is not in the FICM. I stated that the EPA mode started in the same flash that restricted some of the FICM range. It was the BUZZ flash that started this.

Sorry for the missunderstanding.

[krdiesel]

Well I was just repeating what i read over on FTE link i provided earlier.

So then What would is the explanation when i unplugged my EGR and I would get a loss of 5lb boost on the top end and when i truck would get warmed up it would idle with 1 lb boost and I would get turbo farting, then when i plugged my egr back in it would go back to normal, then when i got my EGR blocked off it came back?



If there is a EGR code the system limits the boost and timing to reduce NOX.

[NuttyProfessor]

The "epa" mode is not in the FICM. I stated that the EPA mode started in the same flash that restricted some of the FICM range. It was the BUZZ flash that started this.

Again, there is no such thing as an EPA mode. In order to stop the tampering of the emissions devices on the engines by the owners (or mechanics), the OBD (on board diagnostics) was made more robust to not only detect the tampering by setting a CEL but also to reduce power to make the truck less desirable to drive. It has always been in the files to some degree, it was just made more noticeable in the later files which also coincided with the release of the post buzz FICM cals which were implemented to help with the sticking of the injectors when cold. This was later followed by inductive heating which did away with the post buzz to address the very same problem, again more robustly.

[NuttyProfessor]

If there is a EGR code the system limits the boost and timing to reduce NOX.

No, not directly. If it did only limit the boost and the timing but not the fueling, the truck would smoke terribly which may reduce NOx but send the PM to extremely high unacceptable levels.

When fault codes are set, different actions can occur. Some will just set a CEL, some will DEFUEL to reduce power also in an attempt to force the customer to go in for service or undo the tampering, and some codes will even shut the engine off.

I am not looking to argue with you but I am trying to answer the previous questions in the most accurate way based on my many years of 7.3L, 6.0L, and 6.4L tuning experience and the countless hours of reading all of the available Ford strategy information.

Nutty

[Variable556]

Well I received two of my tunes (ASE and Heavy Tow w/brake) yesterday. I loaded up ASE last night and I'm running it now.

Comparison:

Stock tune with EGR on = 29psi boost @ WOT
ASE tune with EGR off = 21psi boost @ WOT

Now mind you- the truck is still worlds faster with the ASE tune, but I thought the whole lost boost issue was taken care of?

I'm not complaining really, I love the tune! :) I just figured I'd better report my findings.

So on my truck (at least): No EGR still equals less boost (at least on the tune I am running).

[navydiver]

I would venture to say that the lower boost numbers are part of Matt's programming, and would not be concerned. I have run several tunes from different tuners and they all make different ammounts of total boost. My Banks Six Gun even altered my total boost to some degree. I have experienced some tunes that have lower boost with higher EGT's and some vice versa. I have pulled 6,000 pounds over the mountain passes of colorado on tunes that made lower boost pressures than stock, but had no problem maintaining 60-70 mph with max. of 1100-1200 EGT temps. What I'm trying to say is...don't be concerned with boost pressures and trust that the tuner knows much more than we do about what he's doing. We are all, obviously, diesel performance nuts and like to know as much as possible about what is going on with our trucks...but, sometimes we need to just push the "I believe" button and enjoy the performance that can be had with a simple programming procedure.

...just my two cents;)

Variable...thanks for the update...sounds like you're going to really enjoy those tunes of yours.:D...keep us posted!

[NuttyProfessor]

Stock tune with EGR on = 29psi boost @ WOT
ASE tune with EGR off = 21psi boost @ WOT

Now mind you- the truck is still worlds faster with the ASE tune, but I thought the whole lost boost issue was taken care of?


When EGR is active, you flood the intake with exhaust gasses at a high back pressure level which will make it appear that the engine is making more boost, which it is not. So when the EGR is shut off you a reading the true boost values, not an inflated number...there is no lost boost issue

Keep in mind that these trucks have a VGT turbo, not fixed, more boost does not equal more power. If you take a stock 6.0L and starting tuning the VGT for more boost on the dyno, there is actually a point where power drops considerably despite the fact that the boost numbers are higher. Power levels the same, it is much better to have an engine with lower boost.

Nutty

[krdiesel]

No, not directly. If it did only limit the boost and the timing but not the fueling, the truck would smoke terribly which may reduce NOx but send the PM to extremely high unacceptable levels.

When fault codes are set, different actions can occur. Some will just set a CEL, some will DEFUEL to reduce power also in an attempt to force the customer to go in for service or undo the tampering, and some codes will even shut the engine off.

I am not looking to argue with you but I am trying to answer the previous questions in the most accurate way based on my many years of 7.3L, 6.0L, and 6.4L tuning experience and the countless hours of reading all of the available Ford strategy information.

Nutty

I do not think you are arguing, You are providing valueable info. You know more about it then I do. I do not have access to the code. My info was from Matt and my research when the flash first came out 2 years ago, I have not looked at it sense then.

[Variable556]

When EGR is active, you flood the intake with exhaust gasses at a high back pressure level which will make it appear that the engine is making more boost, which it is not. So when the EGR is shut off you a reading the true boost values, not an inflated number...there is no lost boost issue

Keep in mind that these trucks have a VGT turbo, not fixed, more boost does not equal more power. If you take a stock 6.0L and starting tuning the VGT for more boost on the dyno, there is actually a point where power drops considerably despite the fact that the boost numbers are higher. Power levels the same, it is much better to have an engine with lower boost.

NuttyOK, cool...:) That sounds like a reasonable explanation to me. Thank you for explaining that Nutty!!! I'm really liking this ASE tune so far. I can still drive around like a granny to squeeze out some mileage if I wanna, or it can rip-n-roar on demand.:D

[Variable556]

I do not think you are arguing, You are providing valueable info. You know more about it then I do...Ditto! Same here!!!

[Rob.D]

My Phalanx is in the mail!! Looking forward to getting it installed and sharing my experiences. My truck has never been tuned, should be fun!

[Rob.D]

Bump, to see if my signature will now show up with my posts.

[Blaster7Romeo]

Well thanks for the info Nutty and clearing that up. But the main question is can the Phalanx take out the ill affecting EGR codes (no matter where they are in the programing)?

I am assuming the answer is yes because of what Matt told me.

[gmac@vip.net]

just out of curiousty.. what is an ASE tune?

[fordmustangfan67]

Its short for Aggressive Street Economy and is rated at 120Hp